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Fireside Padme


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#1 Last_Chael

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 04:14 PM

For Sydney Nova I'm making Padme's fireside dress - that's the one from Ep 2 with the black corset and mermaid skirt. I had already drafted the patterns as I had originally intended to wear it to Brisnova, but didn't have a chance to finish it. I found the corset patternt hat I had drafted was still pinned together, so that should make fitting easier.

I have a question about the corset that I'm hoping those more knowledgable than I can help me with. The outer layer of my corset is black pleather, which isn't very thick or sturdy at all. So my first question is, what do I line it with? I was considering either black polycotton or black drill. I could also go 100% homespun cotton.

My second question is, how many layers of lining should I have? I had thought 2 should be enough to make the corset sturdy.

MY third question then is, where should the boning go? There aren't any stitches on the outside of the corset, so I had thought of sandwiching it between the two layers of lining. For simplicity, I was going to go with the already channelled boning, so all I have to do is sew it onto one of the linings, and then stitch the other one over the top, and then stitch the lining and the pleather together. Does that make sense? If you have any ideas, I would like to hear them happy.gif I'll probably go to spotlight to get the boning and lining tomorrow.

Oh, and another question about the corset closure. I'm pretty sure in the movie one, it has a front closure, either a zip or possibily hook and eyes. It's in the front because this is hidden by the neckpiece. So I was wondering what people recommend, and what's the easiest for me to do?

Thanks!!
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#2 Metanoia

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 05:33 PM

I think that a lot of people will say don't use poly boning. Mainly because it isn't very sturdy and while I haven't seen many corsets made from it a friend of mine had one that permanently buckled in the middle and wouldn't hold anything in/up like a corset should.

Now that said... when I made my urchin waist cincher corset I used poly boning. Mainly because it was my first attempt at anything like that and I figured that since it was an under bust small thing it wouldn't have the same pressure on the boning.

I made mine with two layers of cotton and two layers of this really thick poly-something that I had lying around. I sewed two rows of stitching on a length of something starfire showed me in the lace aisle at spotlight to make a casing and fed the poly boning into that. Then because there were in effect two layers, the casing stitching only shows up on the inside of the corset.

There are 5 construction pictures here

One thing I learnt after the fact is that you need to have one row of boning on the outside of your eyelets... Does that make sense? Otherwise the eyelets will still pull together. That is one thing I did wrong on mine.

El Presidente should be able to help more, or Starfire or Laliibeans or LadySilverSpider.

In SA we can get proper boning from a place called Dragons Blood Creations. We can also get an eyelet service there too, or at the Button Bar.
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#3 Last_Chael

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 08:06 PM

Both corsets that I have (one bought, one made) have poly boning, unfortunately it's the only stuff they sell at spotlight. And I don't know of anywhere else that sells boning.

But looking at her corset, I don't know if it will require all that much support as would be needed with boning. In fact, I'm wondering if they even had boning at all. It's possible they jsut had a few layers of material, and considering how skinny Natalie is, she wouldn't need much support.


See there's wrinkling, and there's no visible boning line. Although, apparently she wore a white corset underneath, and the black layer went on over that. That's why I figured if I made it quite sturdy with the layers of material, then the boning would have the support of that. But then, this is why I ask questions, because I've only made one corset before, and I've not actually worn it yet, as the outfit was never finished. Also, I think it's fair to say I don't require too much support as I'm pretty small in the bust area. I also bought a nice strapless push up bra today to aid in the support area, so hopefully that will take some of the strain off the boning.

I'm thinking that it would be a good idea then to use four layers: have a layer of lining actually sewn with the pleather to strengthen it, and then the other two layers sewn together, attach the boning to the lining, and then sew them all together. I'll scrounge around and see what thick fabrics I have. I'm sure I have some curtain/upholstery stuff around the place. So long as the very inside layer is black, it shouldn't matter what's inside I would guess.

That's a good idea to use the ribbon stuff for boning casing, makes it much easier. I might do that, I'll jsut check the pricing. The photos are very helpful thank you!

I don't think I'll do eyelets. The real costume does up in the front, though I'm not quite sure how. I was tossing up using a zip or hook and eye tape. I'd have to have a modesty panel under the opening, and I would imagine if I sued hook and eyes, I would need to bone either side. I was tossing up whether to make it like a usual corset with lacing at the back, but I don't think I have the time to do eyelets etc. It just means I have to make sure the fit is perfect, and be prepared to change it if I lose weight (which is entirely possible as I'm trying to!).

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#4 Starfire Phoenix

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 10:52 PM

With that shape she has, I'm pretty sure certain that she has a steel boned corset underneath. Although you don't need to go as far as she has. Something smooth and flattering will be enough smile.gif

I've not finished my only corset yet, but El Presidente helped me out a lot. She recommended a tight weave with no stretch (something like a canvas or denim) for the lining. There are two types of plastic boning at spotlight... there's one in a casing, and one without it. She recommended the one in the casing in a pinch.

After reading this on PG:

QUOTE
The front has a complicated closure that involves the neckpiece. There are hooks of some sort, and the neckpiece hooks into the closure somehow, to not only keep the neckpiece in place, but it effectively hides the closure.


I keep trying to work out how on earth it was fastened!!! lol If you make the pleather layer as a separate piece, you could use a zip. That way you aren't relying on it to do the shaping.
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#5 Last_Chael

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 11:17 PM

Hmmm, well I don't know much about corsets, I must admit! blush.gif But she does have a separate corset underneath.

Thanks, that is very helpful! Definately something without stretch, I agree with that. I figured the cased boning would be best. After the major hassles I had with my other corset, and the boning channels, I would defiantely prefer the ease of jsut stitching in the casing.

Yes, I remember trying to work it out when I first went to make it in March. Noone has pictures of the front opening, which makes it difficult. I'm sure I had decided to use a zip back then too. That will also eliminate the pulls you get from hooks and eyes. I'll jsut have to make sure I cover it well. I don't know if I could use an invisible zip though, unless they have them not joined at the bottom.

I had thought about making a separate proper corset, but I don't know if I will have time. Especially having to do eyelets etc. Plus, the poly boning doesn't give all that much support, so I don't know if it's worth spending the time to make the separate corset if it's not going to provide much support. I might be able to go back at a later date and replace the poly boning with proper stuff, but I guess right now I'm more just thinking I need to get it done in the next two weeks...eeeek!
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#6 Chastangela

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 03:22 PM

With just two weeks till the con (and I'm guessing even less than that before you LEAVE Brissy) you MAY wish to consider buying a corset and making just a corset cover or sheath to go over it. I'm not sure what you have access to in Bris but there is always Gallery Serpentine for the corset (prices are so so). I would recommend what they call they're victorian overbust or they're edwardian style. Your easiest bet would be to get one that does not have a busk opening in the front, make the sheath to fit over the corset, take the lacing out of the corset, sheath it, put lacing back in, slip on. Possibly higher cost (due the to purchase of the pre made corset) but quicker and less sewing for you.

Other wise, take at least two layers of heavy cotton (sometimes called cotton duck) and sew your channels into that, making sure (as Metanoia said) to put a boning channel on either side of the lacing grommets. Since you're probably planning to use poly boning, then make MORE channels. With steel (especially spring steel), you can usually get away with one bone at each piece point (on most corsets, works out to between 6 and 12 bones) but with poly, you will be wanting twice to three times that number. And use the most reinforced grommets you can, IF you're truly wanting to be able to cinch yourself a bit into the corset. Otherwise, you may find you pop out some grommets over time.

I hope that helps. I don't normally make corsets but I enjoy wearing them. biggrin.gif

Oh and best to use cotton or some other natural material for the layers closest to your skin, especially with a leather or vinyl outer layer.

#7 El Presidente

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 03:49 PM

I'd just like to say a few words on boning. Plastic boning that is usually marketed as 'artificial whalebone' does work, and works similarly to whalebone - which was initially steamed to shape, and also conformed to the wearers shape over time.

But like whaleboned (and 'featherboned') corsets of the time period they used a lot more boning channels than we do.

Metal bones (either spring steel or spiral) only really need to be used if you are a./ tight lacing, and this means anything that's a reduction of more than 2-3" (5-8cm) or b./ have very large breasts to support.

The plastic boning available in Spotlight comes in 2 sorts: Rigelene ™ which is 5 lines of plastic woven into a strip, and I wouldn't even use it in a strapless bodice, and the other sort which is solid plastic in a casing which will work in a corset, as long as you're not trying to tightlace, and you put more bones in than just one on every seam. If you do use this sort of boning, you can buy more that the total length of your bones, and then you cut each 'bone' 1-1.5" (3-7cm) longer than you need. Push the bone out of the casing a bit and trim it to the correct size, then you can poke the bone back in the casing and you will have enough casing to turn over each end to encase the bone.

Most of the problems people have with commercially available corsets with plastic boning are usually because they they have tightened the corset beyond it's 'weight bearing' limits, or the distortion is because the pattern is not actually shaped for their body. (There's a reason that the historical corset adverts have a dozen or more different corsets - it's because women are not all the same shape.) Whereas most modern suppliers will have maybe 4 (at most) different cuts of corset.

Looking at the pic I would agree that she is wearing a boned garment. If it were a seperate garment underneath, then the black garment could certainly be done up with hooks and eyes (or an invisible zip) as there would be no strain put on it.

As you are trying to make it as one garment, to get the same look you will need to have either lacing in the back or lacing in the front if it will be covered by the neck piece. You won't get the same snug fit otherwise - to use hooks and eyes will need some slack so you can actully hook them together, and a zipper won't take that kind of strain (though the really chunky ones do hold better than a normal dress zip).

I would recomend the minimum you could do is one layer of a medium-heavy weight fabric (similar to a denim weight) and if you need to use the plastic boning from Spotlight, either use tape (not bias binding) to make you own casings, or use the method described above, and stitch them to the inside of the corset. Then make up the black layer and attach it to the corset layer. This will show minimal boning ridges and still give you a similar silhouette. You'll still need to work out if you're going to have the lacing in the front or back and you can use the seam where you join the black layer to the corset layer at the lacing edge for the casing for the bones there. I would also recommend you put a casing on each seam line and another casing in the middle of each pattern piece.

You'll get longer life out of your corset if you use an awl to make the hole for the metal grommets, rather than punching the hole in the fabric too. Adding a waist tape before you sew on your boning will add to the longevity as well.

I buy my artifical whalebone from Farthingales (a Canadian supplier) http://www.farthingales.on.ca/plastic_bones.php - they also have some instructions on sewing a corset here http://www.farthingales.on.ca/corset_class.html and an overview here http://www.farthingales.on.ca/corset.htm

I hope all of this has helped.

#8 mdb

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 04:49 PM

*applauds El Presidente*

Thank you that is exactly what I have said over and over again to as many people as I can. Use the materials as they were originally meant to and you won't go wrong.
Rigiline though apparently can be used for pre-hourglass corsets as the strain is different. I haven't tried it myself, but zigzagging two layers together is quite good for support (if you can't find anything else;) ) I guess it's because the baleen used in 18thC corsets was generally about 3mm wide or narrower.

I use cable ties as if they were baleen. So for my pre-hourglass corsets it's channel butted to channel butted to channel. For my hourglass corsets I use steels cf and cb then cable ties at least two per seam (for 10 or more panel corsets) and then everywhere else I can shove them.
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All plastic boned and I can get a 4" reduction of my waist easily with the black 1880s corset.

I have recommended lacing rings for people doing this kind of corset. It's what I did for my Black Diamonds costume as the original hooked up the back over a corset (my corset shrunk which is why you can see the lacing;) each stage of sewing made it smaller...) If you sew the lacing rings in firmly and about 3/4 of the way around (most people make the mistake of only sewing them half way) and make sure there is enough boning in the back to support the ring you should do well.

I just uploaded a photo of my first Black Diamonds costume and the lacing rings I did:
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As you can see, I did not heed my own advice;) But there were two rows of boning in the silver strip. so the rings couldn't really buckle the fabric along the edge which can happen if the rings aren't sewn quite a way around.

#9 Last_Chael

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 06:06 PM

Thank you everyone for your input, it's all incredibly helpful information! I'm not all that experienced with making corsets, so I really appreciate the help! Ok, let me see if I can reply to everyone biggrin.gif

Chastangela:
Unfortunately I really don't have the money to buy a proper corset. I do have one that I bought, but while it laces at the back, it does up at the front with hooks and eyes, so it's more a corset looking thing than a corset. And we don't really have anywhere that I know of where you can buy a proper corset. But I was defiantely going to use soemthing natural! Thanks!

El Presidente:
Thanks for the info on the boning, I really had no idea about any of that! I shouldn't need metal bones, as I don't need either of those things. I think I will have to go with the plastic boning, as I don't really have time to find anything else (unless anyone knows of a place where I can get other boning quickly). I'll definately take your advice and put more boning in. I don't really see that I will need to have it incredibly tight. I more just want the look of the corset, I'm not really needing to make my waist any smaller.

The one corset I have made used a zip, and it holds me in really well. Although, I've never actually worn it anywhere, so that could be why. I'm wondering if it might be better for me to make it as two separate pieces - the corset made of black fabric and laced up (either front or back - which is best?) and then have the pleather corset zip up the front over the top. The only thing with that is, how would I ensure that they stay togehter as one piece? On PAdawan's guide, they said that the top of the pleather corset was unfinished and is tucked into the under corset. I could do that, but I'm not sure about the bottom. Also, what's a waist tape?

MDB:
What are cable ties? I've heard of quite a few people using them with success, and I've always wondered what they were and where I would find them. Also what are the lacing rings, and how do you do tham?
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#10 El Presidente

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:45 PM

They're for tying bunches of cable together (funny that tongue.gif ) and you find them in your hardware store. They come in lots of different widths and lengths, and colours, though my local only stocks black. I found a picture to give you a better idea of what you're looking for
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture98/yasu/product1.html
but if you ask for cable ties at your hardware store they'll know what you are talking about.

They do work really well if you are fully boning a corset (ie, the channels run right next to each other, no gaps) and are cheaper than most plastic boning (you do need to cut the locking head off though wink.gif )

Waist tape (or stay tape) is a cloth tape that you pin to the waistline on the inside of the corset (the waist usually being the area of most strain). You only need to pin it because the boning casing or channel stitching will secure it. It's also helpful to catch it in the CF and CB seams.
See http://www.corsetsandcrinolines.com/tidbits.php?index=10 and scroll down to 'waist tape' at the bottom of the page, click on the link and there's a picture of the inside of a corset, showing the tape.
The most accessible tape these days is twill tape (has a characteristic herringbone pattern)
http://www.ribbonsgalore.com.au/shop/index...amp;cPath=65_91

Farthingales also sells busks (and the metal bones) and some very nice corset grommets - they have a wider, flatter flange and they curl over neatly on the inside - no more frayed lacing cords smile.gif

Hmm, it doesn't help you with your Padme gown now, but I'm wondering if I could cram a corset workshop into one day, for when I come up to Brisbane....

#11 Last_Chael

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:13 PM

Ah, I was thinking that's what they were, but I wasn't sure. But I don't plan on having that much boning, so probably not good in my case.

Ah, ok that makes sense. I shall check out spotlight and see what I can find. Thank you!

Ooooh that would be wonderful if you could! I know most of us would love to do corsetry (except perhaps Luke tongue.gif). We're all very keen here! happy.gif

I'm going to try on the mock-up tonight, to make sure it fits properly. Of course, that's without boning. I'll be picking up the boning and lining on Sunday, and hopefully I can cut out the pieces then as well. I really need to get cracking on this!
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#12 Last_Chael

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 06:52 PM

I was just looking at costumer's guide, and they showed a picture of the Ever After gownl specifically how the gown attached to the corset underneath with hooks (like from hook and eyes). I was wondering if that might be sufficient to attach my pleather corset to the inner corset? The only other way is to do what they did in the movie, and leave the pleather corset unfinished at the top and tuck it in - though I woudl be worried that it would come undone, so I woudl prefer a more secure method.

[edit]

Another quick question. I jsut tried on the mock-up of my corset, and as predicted, discovered it didn't quite fit me as well as it fitted my dummy. I put this down to her having such a tiny waist and me having a wide ribcage. So I was only just able to pin it together at the front, and it was a tight squeeze. But it did pin. In order for it not to strain as much, I need to add a couple of cm to the front seam, starting a bit below my bust. But I had thought that it might be best not to add this to the undercorset, so that I can lace it up tight enough, and it wouldn't matter too much if it didn't quite meet. Though I don't want to put too much strain on the undercorset, due to the bones that I will be using. However, I would need to add this to the pleather over corset, to make sure it could zip up, without busting the zip. Does that sound right?
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#13 El Presidente

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE
I jsut tried on the mock-up of my corset, and as predicted, discovered it didn't quite fit me as well as it fitted my dummy.
<heh> The idea of corsetry is for the garment to shape you, not you shape the garment. So to a certain extent, you can change your silhouette quite noticeable depending on what shape corset you're wearing.

And in fact you shouldn't have been able to pin your corset together smile.gif as it should 'not fit you' by at least 2" - that's why we lace them, lol! So I agree, don't add the extra to your under corset, and that should keep you firm enough to get the look. Though to get a 'comfortable' corset you probably should adjust the fitting - especially over the ribs, since we're not shaped like Victorian women (or dress dummies for that matter tongue.gif) - but that's hard to do on your own, especially if you haven't had much experience with corsets.

So you can add a bit to the pleather pattern but you will need to 'fit' that pattern again once you've made the corset part, so you get it nice and smooth over your reshaped-by-the-corset body. I'd still go with the tucking the top in idea (it's one less thing you have to sew smile.gif) and would give you that nicely rounded edge you see on the costume - if your corset is tight enough it won't come out. And if you are feeling insecure - "Fashion Tape" would probably help.

QUOTE
Ooooh that would be wonderful if you could! I know most of us would love to do corsetry (except perhaps Luke ).


I'll chat to Cat and see what we can organise - even if we don't get to actual construction, I'm sure we can at least go through fitting and altering the pattern...

And I should mention for Luke that historically men have worn corsets to get a neat and trim figure too smile.gif and they lasted the longest in the military - no effort in standing at attention in a corset wink.gif

#14 Last_Chael

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 09:04 PM

Heheh thank you so much! It's great to have people I can ask these questions of! This is very very helpful, I jsut hope I can get it done in time!

I have another question. What should I use for lacing on the undercorset? Particularly as it's going to be under the pleather corset?

Yesterday I bought some drill, but I was only able to get 1 metre, which I think may only be enough for one layer of the undercorset. So I'm going to search around and see what else I can find for the outside of the undercorset, as this will be hidden by the pleather. I was thinking of putting at least one layer of polycotton behind the pleather as well to help strengthen it.

Oooh that would be fantastic! I'm sure it would still be incredibly helpful!

Hahah I don't think Luke really needs a corset tongue.gif He's already rather trim!!
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#15 Lord Zerebin

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 06:52 PM

Me in a Corset, dear god, how thin would i be.
Although, depends if we are doing a rocky horror show tongue.gif

Edited by Lord Zerebin, 17 October 2006 - 06:57 PM.


#16 morgan-aleghieri

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 10:41 PM

Oh GOD - I can't be visualising that tongue.gif roffle.
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#17 Lord Zerebin

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 11:26 PM

You know you all want too.... (Glares eyes like thee Fururama HypnoToad!)

#18 Last_Chael

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 07:14 PM

No she doesn't! Tust me, I've seen him in a Mara Jade outfit *the goggles, they do nothing* tongue.gif
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#19 Lord Zerebin

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 07:23 PM

(sniffles) "I... thought i was beautiful......"

#20 Last_Chael

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 12:36 PM

I discovered some black cord that I had bought a few years ago to make a skirt out of, so I'm using that for the undercorset and I'll be using the drill to line and strengthen the pleather corset. Do you think two layers of the cord will be strong enough? I found some other fabric (possibly a drill or cord, not quite sure) that's blue, but I could use it as interlining if needed.

I'm still wondering about what to use for lacing my corset closed. Oh and the eyelets for the lacing, what should I use for that?

I'm in the process of cutting out the pieces, I want to get everything cut out first (including all my jedi stuff) then I'll jsut sit and sew everything.
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